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  1. #1
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    Film and VHS editing

    Hello, I have some questions regarding non-computer editing for analog formats like 8mm film and VHS.

    1. ) How would creating a crossfade transition work for both of these formats?

    2. ) How can fade outs be created?

    3. ) How can effects like bluescreen be added?

    Also, though this is a bit unrelated, can anyone tell me how exactly companies transferred motion picture film onto VHS, laserdisc, DVD, etc... formats? Do they do it the same way as a lot of independent people do today by recording the projection with a camera and then converting it to whatever format?

  2. #2
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    Hello Keranu,
    The type of editing your talking about - linear editing - can be quite tricky to do in terms of adding effects and transitions unless you know most of the technicals to tape-to-tape editing

    There is this great page on this website that can explain it to you - it doesn't take long to read and can probably help you to understand how:
    http://www.mediacollege.com/video/editing/linear/
    But, if you have already read it - your probably wanting to know what you'll need to do something as complex like add crossfades and fadeouts, You'll need something like this an editing controller -
    Either that or a computer capable of complex editing. Hope that helped.
    Last edited by B_List19; 15th Apr 2007 at 06:23.

  3. #3
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    Hello and thanks for your response!

    I have read all of the linear editing page before and it was definitely helpful, but didn't quite cover the questions I am proposing in this thread. I am really interested in getting an editing controller, but are there certain controllers that are capable of doing effects like I mentioned? By the way, thanks for referring to them as "editing controllers" rather than "edit controllers" as the linear video editing page refers to - I had a rough time finding these controllers because I kept typing it as "edit" instead of "editing", which is now giving me a lot more results! If anyone has more information about this stuff, feel free to post .

  4. #4
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    Hmm, looks like what I need is called a "special effects generator". They don't seem to be too expensive on eBay either.

  5. #5
    Quote
    Quote: Keranu
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    Hmm, looks like what I need is called a "special effects generator". They don't seem to be too expensive on eBay either.
    Nope Most linear editing supplies are on the cheap side now. since the world is on to Nonlinear. It is nice, if you are looking to grab some stuff fairly cheep, However it is a PITA if you are looking for replacement parts if you already have stuff
    Manoni Productions
    Pass me another beer...You are still ugly!

  6. #6
    Depending on your ultimate output resolution, a better investment could be a DVD-RAM recorder. It's like a VCR, except that it records on DVD and has onboard HDD to buffer/record in case you do not want to burn it on DVD. You can record VHS to DVD straightaway. Also some models have in-built editing programs (simple ones, not sure if it has cross-fades though). In any case, having your stuff on DVD allows the possibility of non-linear editing. That's another topic.

    The other option is analogue to digital pass though. It was covered before.
    http://www.mediacollege.com/forum/sh...5&postcount=17

    8mm is the tougher one... the cheapest option, as you've mentioned. Project and shoot, but that's not exactly a fantastic idea for quality. There are services available to translate film to tape/CD/DVD, but it is costly.

    A short and quick answer to your 'non-related question'. Many media companies work digital nowadays, so the master (in digital form) is tranferred to film/VHS/VCD/DVD etc for minimal loss of quality. There are many indie film makers who shoot and edit on HD (digital) before color grading and transferring digital to film nowadays.

    Lastly, my effects generator (of which I used to use it for linear editing) is now used for live-video switching.
    There's no bad camera, just a bad user
    Loong . Singapore

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the responses.

    nagar, I'm not so interested in digital formats in general as I prefer the look of analog picture. I like to back up analog formats on my hard drive or on DVD so I can preserve something or share it online, but for personal viewing, I prefer to stick with analog formats.

    EDIT: Speaking of converting analog to digital, what digital format do you guys think resembles the original picture the closest? I usually just stick to mpeg since it's smaller.

    Quote
    Quote: nagar
    8mm is the tougher one... the cheapest option, as you've mentioned. Project and shoot, but that's not exactly a fantastic idea for quality. There are services available to translate film to tape/CD/DVD, but it is costly.
    Do you know how exactly those services translate film to other formats? Do they also project and shoot, albeit with nice hardware?

  8. #8
    Staying Analogue
    There's no better quality you can duplicate apart from your master tape/reel (the ones you are holding onto now). Transferring it to analog will at best give you a 1st generation duplicate. Also keeping in mind the deterioration of an analogue tape being played over and over. The most convenient analogues are the Hi8 and VHS/SVHS. It's harder and harder to find Hi8s now... so the other two can be considered. And remember, a day of delay = a day of degeneration to the master (in most circumstance unless proper and stringent measures are kept).

    Format
    Perhaps DV-PAL / NTSC will do them well. They take large amount of space, but hey, are we comparing quality or quantity here?

    The Pros
    Just a note, when I use the term pro, I simply mean those who does it as a fulltime profession/for their living.

    There're a few ways the pros do it. One is project and shoot, but not on-the-wall type. I believe Mediacollege has a short write-up on it regarding the Video Transfer Box. To be honest, they can be so affordable that you can do it yourself!

    Using Telecine systems is another, the best and closest quality I guess, but very costly. They also transfer to different formats.
    There's no bad camera, just a bad user
    Loong . Singapore

  9. #9
    New Member myszy's Avatar
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    Hello Keranu,
    If you want to work with analog video have a look at U-Matic (AKA 3/4").
    It's an older professional video format.

    * You can get the equipment really cheap now.

    * The tape is 1.5 times wider than VHS (don't mention 8mm...)and has
    a higher speed. That means better S/N ratio, good quality 2 channel
    linear sound that can be easyly over-dubbed, much less degradation during
    copy and it's very reliable and durable for wear-and-tear during editing.

    * The decks are pro gear. They are bult like a tank, has all the controls
    needed for easy editing - simply uncomparable with consumer grade VCRs.
    The U-Matic mechanism has a different tape path which reduces time of
    mode change (going form 'review' to 'play' can be really slow on VHS deck)
    and gives the +/- 2 frames acurate edits without the timecode.

    * They use composite signal (as oposed to component used by Betacam) what
    allows you to combine U-Matic pro gear with good quality consumer machines
    (mixers, titlers etc.)

    * Don't be spoofed by numbers. Even if the basic Low Band U-Matic claims
    250 lines of resolution if you look at the picture it's much better than
    VHS and the color reproduction and smoothness of the shades can be better
    than Hi8 or SVHS. And the high resolution U-Matic SP is comparable with
    Betacam SP (and some say that it is even better).

    There are ofcourse some drawbacks:

    * The machines uses some special cables and connectors that are much more
    expensive than consumer ones. It's good to get cables along with your
    equipment.

    * The repairs and parts may be very hard to find and costy. I's sometimes
    cheaper to buy a next recorder than replace a pinch roller in the old one.
    Even don't mention the video drum assy...

    * There is no U-Maric camcorders. You have to use a separate camera and a
    portapack recorder (like Sony VO-6800). This altogether with bateries is
    quite a lot of load on your back if you are doing en ENG style work
    (but what a smooth shots you can make without a steadycam... ;-) ).
    You con ofcourse shoot on Hi-8 (which is very fragile) and then transfer
    it to U-Matic for editing. Even when copying over the composite the copy
    is amazingly good.

    And if you like the analog look you should try 3-tube camera (I'm not
    trolling). It's a true analog pick-up device as oposite to CCD which
    has definite number of 'cells'. It's hard to work with, but the image has
    a distinct, smooth and warm look.

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