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  1. #11
    P.S.:

    Search went all through those posts and returned results in .7 seconds!

    WebSearch scanning the same files in WebBBS takes 7 seconds.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    forum philosophy

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Hi J. Yes, I did see that but I didn't look into it. To be honest I have gone from being a huge threaded forum fan to thinking that linear actually works better. I think the main thing is that most people are now used to linear forums and don't get as confused by them. Back when I started with WebBBS most people who used web forums had come from a newsgroup background and WebBBS simulated that environment well. These days hardly any of our forum users would know what a newsgroup is.

    In addition, I've found that when you have some people using the threaded view and some using a linear view, confusion increases.

    Of course, vBulletin comes with what seems to be a very robust threaded view (as well as a hybrid view) if that's still your preference.
    I've used both.. and didn't come from a news group. I think they both have cons and pros. When I first went to the linear, I found them very confusing, because the ones I looked at would have replies to certain posts without a quote of the original post. I would have to go back thrut the thread to figure out who the person was replying to... ack. gave up sometimes because it wasn't worth the effort.

    In webbbs, I found that in a long thread, I could pick out what part I was interested in (because people branch off topic without starting new threads) and just read that post and the replies.

    However, if the topics are short and really linear in that everyone is just generally putting their 2 cents in worth about the topic, then the linear is just as easier and quicker to read clicking to open each response... which is why I installed Tarty's fully modded version. It incorporates the linear mode for topics. He added a "replies to" and "in response to" within the linear mode which is nice. I will have to see if VBulletin has this (probably does). However, this is not feasible for forums as big as yours and Harry's. too slow.

    I think the problem now is, there are people that have used ONLY linear forums, and they don't use the threaded capability, even when it is present in VBulletin. Maybe because the Threaded capabilitie isn't as intuitive as WebBBS, or harder to see, whatever... so the threaded concept becomes meaningless if only part of the people use it in a thread and everyone else just talks in random.

    I think perhaps the two modes could be incorporated better... but it is probably too late for most established VBulletins that have been around for a long time. When I looked though... I thought, "this really has potential". But I think they just put it in to appease certain factions.


    For instance (aren't you glad you brought this up, Dave? :P):

    look at this topic/thread on a VideoFitness.com forum:

    http://forum.videofitness.com/showth...ge=1&pp=10

    this thread is 15 pages long. So, I thought, I will go to threaded mode... great!.

    http://forum.videofitness.com/showth...ded#post452704

    My thoughts when I saw the threaded "window" were "I know my eyes aren't the greatest... but this window is way too small" I try to enlarge it and I can't. then you have a LOT of more replies below this depth, which after you've scrolled, you click this, and you are back to the top of this thread and have to scroll down to figure out where you are. ack! No wonder people don't use threaded.!

    If you provide this option, I would make the window bigger, or let the user define the window size. Then either get rid of the "more replies below current depth", or at least, get the browser to scroll back to there. Maybe lt the user say how they want this. Your users are used to threaded and might use it with VBulletin if you can configure it so that is easier to use. I hope it is just a matter of tweaking the configuration.

    Anyway, the threaded is hard to use the way VideoFitness has it configured. If the topic is any length... and that is the only time I really would like to use the threaded option!


    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Hi Lynne, nice to see you again. Don't hold your breath on The Race Cafe, it may be a number of weeks before I can take that task on. Very frustrating, as I know that vBulletin is going to save us a tonne of time when it's done. We're really struggling to keep WebBBS up and running at the moment - it's creaking badly under the strain!

    Re search-friendliness, I installed the SEO mod for this phpbb forum and made a couple of tweaks myself. Seems to work fine. If you want to exclude search engines from some forums you could use robots.txt.
    ok... thanks. that is exactly what I wanted to know.

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    The quote feature is included as standard with phpbb and vBulletin. Click the "Quote" button in any message or use UBB code.
    I meant "Reply with Quote" where it quotes the post you are replying to. I didn't see it here, but I do now that I've registered. I guess you don't have that option as a guest.

    as far as the formatting keys, they don't work right for Firefox browser (the browser I use).

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    You're right about administration being much easier with these forums -- it's like suddenly growing wings. Honestly, I just didn't appreciate how limited WebBBS is, and how difficult and time-consuming the most simple tasks are until I started using other software. And if phpbb is like growing wings, vBulletin is like getting a spaceship . Meanwhile poor old WebBBS is like using a walking frame with one of the legs missing.

    I'm sorry about giving WebBBS a hard time. Everyone knows how much I've loved that software and how it changed my life. I owe a huge debt to Darryl, Kevin and the others. It just upsets me so much that they stubbornly refused to listen to the advice which might have saved WebBBS. Now it's all too late.
    Yes, I learned a lot from WebBBS, too, but don't see much future based on the way things are going now. I hope to be proven wrong... but I don't think so.

    imo, there is still the potential to create a forum that could be a different from the mainstream, but I don't know how much call there would be for it.

    I hope that for people like me, that Kevin will at least incorporate the different mods that people have done into the next version. Maybe clean it up a bit.

    I would like to use MySQL, be able to incorporate CSS easily (whatever happened to that project? Another one started that just... disappeared). And have Admin and Setup be easier. Tarty has already done a lot in this area. But I don't think that is in the works.

    this is what gets me... WebBBS hasn't been a one man operation in a long time. Most of the mods have been done by various people on the board in the last couple of years, who wanted to fix problems, improve things on their own boards, but also wanted to contribute to the webbbs community. I think that is what I feel most dismayed about, is I think that group feeling of being a part of making webbbs better is not there like it was. imo.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    Quote
    Quote: Harry
    P.S.:

    Search went all through those posts and returned results in .7 seconds!

    WebSearch scanning the same files in WebBBS takes 7 seconds.
    wow!!! that is quite a difference. Probably the difference is in the database.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    and, on the subject of CSS...

    is PhpBB fairly flexible as far as CSS?

    How about VBulletin.?

  5. #15
    Give it a test drive. If you see anything broke or insecure, please let me know.

    http://www.smokstak.com/forum/

    CSS is giving me fits - trying to get a left column table installed.


    -- Harry

  6. #16
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    Hybrid mode!

    Wow... I just noticed the Hybrid mode in the threaded view and tried it out.

    Wow.. is that nice!!! I was going to suggest this to Tarty... except I think he is getting tired of my suggestions.. :P

    It is nice, though in a long thread to be able to select one post, and then see that post and only the replies to that post. Cool!!!

    Your forum looks nice, Harry!

  7. #17
    Vbulletin is awesome! I'm liking everything about it.

    Still need to do a side column for ads and get banner insertion code.

    Also need to pursue the code to intercept spam and moderate it.

    Photo uploading works! So far, so good! :wink:

    -- Harry

  8. #18
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    Hey Harry, you've done well! Good effort. Interesting comments on the email situation - there's always a complication huh? But it certainly looks like your forum is coming together. And that search speed is very interesting indeed. I haven't done any performance comparisons yet but that's the sort of thing I'm hoping for. Great to see someone actually doing it with a big archive.

    Lynne, both phpbb and vBulletin are both good with CSS. Boy, does it feel liberating! It's also worth noting that with the style system in vBulletin, I have made some reasonably major changes to the the board which would have required serious hacking in WebBBS and a reasonable amount of hacking in phpbb, but in vBulletin I have not yet altered one single line of the core code! I've created my own separate style files which I can back up easily. I can update the software tomorrow and simply import my style and all my modifications are ready to go. Try doing that with WebBBS

    Regarding the threaded/hybrid mode I was very excited when I first saw it and I still think it's fantastic. I suppose I had always thought that the one thing WebBBS had over other software was the versatility of different display modes, but vBulletin even does that much better than WebBBS. However I am still undecided about the wisdom of having both linear and threaded options available. At The Race Cafe I've found that it really does create confusion when different people are using different views. For one person it may be obvious who they are replying to because they use threaded mode, but someone else using guestbook mode doesn't see the same flow and may think the reply was to a different message. Also, some people reply nicely in the correct "sub-thread" but others reply at the end of the whole thread, breaking the usefulness of the threaded view.
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Lynne, both phpbb and vBulletin are both good with CSS. Boy, does it feel liberating! It's also worth noting that with the style system in vBulletin, I have made some reasonably major changes to the the board which would have required serious hacking in WebBBS and a reasonable amount of hacking in phpbb, but in vBulletin I have not yet altered one single line of the core code! I've created my own separate style files which I can back up easily. I can update the software tomorrow and simply import my style and all my modifications are ready to go. Try doing that with WebBBS :wink:
    well, I've got to say, that is pretty impressive. Sure saves you a lot of time.

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Regarding the threaded/hybrid mode I was very excited when I first saw it and I still think it's fantastic. I suppose I had always thought that the one thing WebBBS had over other software was the versatility of different display modes, but vBulletin even does that much better than WebBBS. However I am still undecided about the wisdom of having both linear and threaded options available. At The Race Cafe I've found that it really does create confusion when different people are using different views. For one person it may be obvious who they are replying to because they use threaded mode, but someone else using guestbook mode doesn't see the same flow and may think the reply was to a different message. Also, some people reply nicely in the correct "sub-thread" but others reply at the end of the whole thread, breaking the usefulness of the threaded view.
    well, I think we are saying kind of the same thing. unless everyone uses threaded, or at least responds to the right post, it loses its validity. And I think what you are saying is the way the threaded option is here, some people would never even display it. Wouldn't even realize it was there.

    I find I use that "quote the post you are replying to " function no matter what php bb I am using, because everyone understands that.

  10. #20
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    You're right Lynne about the quote thing. It looks the same no matter which display mode you're using and everyone always understands it.

    I guess my current preference for linear display isn't because I personally like it or because I think it's better -- it's because that's what most people use and everyone understands it. It may not be the "best" method but I think it's the most pragmatic.

    And although I like your avatar just fine, I preferred Belana
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

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