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  1. #61
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    Dave, what about Race Cafe? are you going to convert that to VBulletin?


  2. #62
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    Harry - thanks for the messages, tips and links. Appreciate you sharing these.

    Welcome back Lynne. Sorry about the subscription thing - when I converted this board to vBulletin I lost a bunch of settings for individual users. You can re-subscribe if you like using the "Thread Tools" drop-menu above. The control panel has more options for auto-subscribing.

    I had wondered if/when my WebBBS article would be noticed at the WebScripts forums. It's harsh but I think it's fair, and I think it touches on how many of us feel. Call me emotional but it will take a long time for me to get over what happened to my beloved WebBBS. Originally it changed my life for the better, then it cost me dearly as I sunk countless hours over several years into propping it up. All wasted.

    Not to mention the cost of upgrading our server just to cope with WebBBS's excessive appetite for CPU cycles.

    Anyway, your forum is still looking good Lynne. It certainly makes the forum more interesting with Tarty's mods and your seasonal theme is a nice touch.

    It's hard to know if converting to phpbb is the right thing for you, but if you're seriously considering it then I suspect it is. You will have to install a mod or two (e.g. image upload) but they are well documented. It looks like the next version will address the most important problem with phpbb -- the time involved adding mods which should be standard. I suspect that the next version will close the gap between phpbb and vBulletin somewhat. Still, my money is on vBulletin being the best for a long time. On the other hand, I've backed the wrong horse before when it comes to forum software

    Re your AV forum... I see that the URLs still have a ? in them, e.g. config.pl?page=4. I thought the SE-friendly option replaced these with /. In any case, I don't think parameters in URLs are the real problem. I'd say your main problem is lack of inbound links. www.owendot.com only has a PR ranking of 2 and the only backlinks Google shows are from your own sites. Get a few more links and you might do better.

    And good old Race Cafe. I have started getting the vBulletin version ready but it's a lot more complicated because I modified WebBBS extensively for that site, including the user management script I spent months developing. I should be able to take the plunge within a couple of months, depending on other projects. Also, I'm not even going to try importing the WebBBS messages - I'll just start with blank new forums. That's a bummer but it's the only practical thing to do, given the modifications I've made.

    Anyway, I'd better get back to work. Lots to do!
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Welcome back Lynne. Sorry about the subscription thing - when I converted this board to vBulletin I lost a bunch of settings for individual users. You can re-subscribe if you like using the "Thread Tools" drop-menu above. The control panel has more options for auto-subscribing.
    I already resubscribed. I love this feature.

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    I had wondered if/when my WebBBS article would be noticed at the WebScripts forums. It's harsh but I think it's fair, and I think it touches on how many of us feel. Call me emotional but it will take a long time for me to get over what happened to my beloved WebBBS. Originally it changed my life for the better, then it cost me dearly as I sunk countless hours over several years into propping it up. All wasted.

    Not to mention the cost of upgrading our server just to cope with WebBBS's excessive appetite for CPU cycles.
    Yes, well, sadly, I agree with what you said in this article. I learned a lot with webbbs and a lot from the regulars that used to hang out on the support forum. But I can certainly understand their (and your) reasons for leaving.

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Anyway, your forum is still looking good Lynne. It certainly makes the forum more interesting with Tarty's mods and your seasonal theme is a nice touch.

    It's hard to know if converting to phpbb is the right thing for you, but if you're seriously considering it then I suspect it is. You will have to install a mod or two (e.g. image upload) but they are well documented. It looks like the next version will address the most important problem with phpbb -- the time involved adding mods which should be standard. I suspect that the next version will close the gap between phpbb and vBulletin somewhat. Still, my money is on vBulletin being the best for a long time. On the other hand, I've backed the wrong horse before when it comes to forum software
    Yes, Tarty's mods help a LOT. Plus, now I can bug him about changes
    If he ever leaves webbbs, it will probably be for this reason...

    what is the deal with phpbb? is it run by one person? or a group?

    Quote
    Quote: Dave
    Re your AV forum... I see that the URLs still have a ? in them, e.g. config.pl?page=4. I thought the SE-friendly option replaced these with /. In any case, I don't think parameters in URLs are the real problem. I'd say your main problem is lack of inbound links. www.owendot.com only has a PR ranking of 2 and the only backlinks Google shows are from your own sites. Get a few more links and you might do better.
    actually, I am talking only about this archive:

    http://www.owendot.com/cgi-bin/av/avpub/config.pl

    I see yahoo and msn bots indexing it, yet never see any pages when I use these search engines, even when limiting the search to www.owendot.com

    googlebot just indexes the main page. then stops.

    so.. I am trying different things, but it is frustrating. The owner put a lot of time into sorting out those posts which she felt comfortable with putting out on the public domain. feels like wasted time at this point.

    take a look at what is cached in these search engines.. and ignore the big banner in the yahoo one and the google one, I fixed that - forgot to put a height specification in the img tag:

    Google
    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...-a%20target=nw

    yahoo
    http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_...l=lang_en&n=40

    msn (only the beta search seems to pick us up)

    http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q...-US&FORM=CVRE2

    http://beta.search.msn.com/results.a...hive&FORM=MSRE

    weird. anyway, still fiddling with it.

  4. #64
    I'll post some links here for anyone making the move:

    http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...threadid=35697

    http://www.vbadvanced.com/products.php?

    http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/

    It is overwhelming to see how many people are actively supporting vBulletin with add-on packages. Check the stats section on these boards for the number of posts and users. It's alive!

    Also, it looks like the end of the earth over on the awsd board.

    Check this from over a year ago:

    http://awsd.com/scripts/forum/webbbs...cgi/read/80892
    Last edited by Harry; 16th Dec 2004 at 04:35.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Lynne's Avatar
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    Quote
    Quote: Harry
    Also, it looks like the end of the earth over on the awsd board.

    Check this from over a year ago:

    http://awsd.com/scripts/forum/webbbs...cgi/read/80892
    jeez, I had forgotten about this thread. This is depressing. To say the least.

  6. #66
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    Well, I've left a parting message at awsd.com which will probably not do much to repair my relationship with Kevin. It's not normally in my nature to be so blunt, but IMO Kevin has let us all down badly and caused a lot of damage. In itself that's not so bad, what hurts is that he won't admit it and blames everyone else for giving him "crap".

    I had always thought than when WebBBS got to the stage where it was obviously doomed, Kevin would face the truth. But even now he refuses to admit there's a problem. It's just unbelievable.
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

  7. #67
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    I decided to post another message in the community forum. A bit of a turnaround, but I did mean it just as much as I meant the angry stuff. Damn, I'm an emotional guy
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

  8. #68
    Man, Ol' Kev is in a delusional state of denial.

    I think I've been reading the awsd board more this week than I have in the past year. Such riveting discussion!

    I cannot begin to express my satisfaction with having all this behind me without need for worry about where my BBS support is coming from. I just have to "bite my tongue" OR "control myself at the keyboard" when I'm on that site.
    Last edited by Harry; 18th Dec 2004 at 01:11.

  9. #69
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    Too right Harry. After reading all of Kevin's latest rantings I am now convinced he is living in a world of his own. It's not often you see someone hold onto an untenable position in the face of overwhelming opposition like he does.

    One thing that gets me upset is the time frame. More than 12 months ago WebBBS was in a desperate state. Kevin was told repeatedly that action was needed immediately, that there was no option to wait. Even now he keeps implying that everything will be okay. What he doesn't understand is that because he didn't listen back then, the death of WebBBS has already happened. Have a look at the WebScripts examples page (which used to include all sorts of high-profile sites), or try searching for sites still using WebBBS. It's over, Kevin. While you stood around telling us we didn't know what we were talking about, our predictions came to pass and the scripts you were entrusted with died.

    For those few people who are sticking with WebBBS, one good thing to come out of this is that Kevin seems to have been given a kick in the pants and it looks like he'll release a new version in the next few days. I don't believe for a minute that he was already planning on doing this - after 12 months it seems like a very big coincidence.

    I would never trust Kevin again. He arrogantly thinks he is the only one who can understand development issues. He makes things up about software development which just aren't true and thinks we're all so ignorant we won't notice. He takes on responsibilities he can't honour, then blames it on other people for expecting too much of him. He dismisses every opinion which conflicts with his own. He sidesteps any difficult question by twisting other people's words - then accuses them of doing the same thing.

    So why is Kevin so vehemently defending his insane decision to refuse help? Why won't he answer one simple question: How does he think a single programmer can resurrect WebBBS? There is no answer. His "man alone" strategy is folly and everyone knows it. Frankly, I think he is a selfish little boy who doesn't want to share his toys.

    WebBBS should have been given to someone like Rainer or Tarty. Then we would have seen not only progress, but a thriving and healthy community. Kevin has managed to kill both.

    ANYWAY, like you Harry, I feel a tremendous sense of relief that this isn't my problem any more. It's amazing how energy-sapping it is living with the spectre of having outdated software running your website. The future without WebBBS feels so much brighter. I just need to let it go, stop worrying about the poor people still having to deal with Kevin and get on with my life.
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

  10. #70
    Administrator Dave's Avatar
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    Moving along to other issues....

    Lynne, I didn't answer your questions. phpbb is run by a group of volunteers, although I believe there is an individual at the helm. An open development forum is available for everyone to contribute to new versions. As far as I can see it all works well and has been a stable system for about four years.

    FYI, vBulletin is a bit different in that it's a professional team making money. I initially had some reservations about this, my main concern being what would happen if the company went broke. However it seems to be stable with a satisfied customer base so I'm willing to take the risk.

    And unlike WebBBS, there is such a strong user base for both phpbb and vBulletin that it's hard to imagine them dying.

    I still don't know why Google isn't indexing your forum archives but I'm still willing to bet that more links would help. I believe Google makes it's decision on how deeply to spider sites partly on PR ranking. It's quite possible that if you could increase your PR by a point, Google might decide to index one level further.

    In any case inbound links are one of the most important components of search ranking, so even if you do get indexed you'll probably need inbound links to get decent SERP placement.
    Dave Owen
    MediaCollege.com

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