Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts
    8

    News video format

    Hoping someone on here can give me some advice.

    I mostly write editorial and shoot stills but also shoot some Hi-8 vision for TV news from time-to-time.

    In the past I usually just send the tape but now I'm in northern Thailand and that isn't really an option.

    The stuff I'm shooting is mostly for news so I edit it down to about two minutes.

    I've been saving it as a DV file at 768 x 576 pixels in PAL format at 25 fps and a stream rate of 57.60 mbits/sec.

    Even a modest 1.40 min file though still runs at around 320 Mbytes in size.

    The maximum internet feed I can get here is 1 Mbit BUT uploads typically run at only 12-30 KB/sec.

    The transfer time for files is therefore enormous. Keep in mind that this is for broadcast not just for web use.

    I use Pando to send the files as an email attachment over the P2P network but this is still time consuming.

    Can someone suggest a useful and lossless compression tool for video similar to JPEG for stills?

    Is there any advantage in exporting the files to
    DVCPro or DVC Pro 50?

    Exporting it to AVI creates a smaller file but the stream rate is only 30.21 mbits/sec and I'm concerned at quality for broadcast at this rate.

    My background is shooting and while I'm comfortable editing using a Mac PowerBook and iMovie, it's getting the technical side right for broadcast while keeping the package size as small as possible for transfer that concerns me.

    Any help or suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

    Thanks
    John

  2. #2
    Hi John
    Most TV networks are rather "picky" about what format you send them and whether they can actually use it!!
    It might be an idea to first see what they are prepared to accept before playing around with different formats.

    Once you get a list of formats they can use then you can choose the most "compressable" one

    Chris

  3. #3
    Many of the local TV and Cable stations us DV-AVI unless they have gone completely to HDV. They generally prefer to have the content on DV or MiniDV tapes, best bet is to export your video back to tape.

    But as Chris says there are always exceptions, some stations are still using SVHS and some even use Beta.
    Always best to check with the station to verify the format they require.
    2 x Dual Core Xeon 3.0, Premiere Elements 1 - 7, Premiere Pro CS3, After Effects CS3, Soundbooth, Heroglyph, Vitascene, EncoreDVD http://muvipix.com

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts
    8
    So far I haven't found any of them to be particularly picky at all.

    However whiloe a MPEG-4 file is ok for use on a webpage it's pretty crappy for broadcast.

    I think you're both missing the point. This is vision being sent from northern Thailand to stations in Australia, Europe or the US.

    There is no option to export it back to tape ... what would be the point when it's going to be sent over an 1 Mbit internet feed?

    There is also no uplink facility - which is what I've used in the past - to send direct from tape.

    It's also not practicable to ask 50 different TV networks/ stations for a list of standards and encode separately for each one.

    Firstly, because news editors and the like often have no idea of the technical requirements to start with.

    Secondly, we are, after all, talking about news footage which is immediate and hence the post asking for compression suggestions to speed up the transfers.

    To be blunt, this stuff is coming from the bloody jungles via two-bob internet cafe's, not from the luxury of suburbia with high speed broadband connections or the luxury of satellite uplink facilities.

  5. #5
    Hi
    I'm sure that we realise that tape is not an option and your only alternative to to upload the news clips. DV-AVI is the obvious and slowest choice, especially from internet cafes!! I think you will just have to find a speed and quality compromise here and see what the stations will accept. If the news is that essential then poor footage is better than none!!!

    A 720x576 WMV file encoded at 1mbs is quite watchable on a standard TV and way smaller than a DV file. As mentioned before, see what they are prepared to accept in compression. I'm sure they would rather have slightly below broadcast quality from you rather than none at all. Otherwise stick with DV-AVI if they need to keep the standard high.

  6. #6
    MPEG4 or H264 should be acceptable to most.
    Eric Adler (tonsofpcs)
    http://www.videoproductionsupport.com/ Chat at: http://tinyurl.com/vpschat
    Follow me on twitter: @videosupport @eric_adler

  7. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts
    8
    Thanks Chris but the reason I spelt it out again was that Chuck had suggested exporting it back to tape and I can see no purpose in doing that at all.

    I've just run a series of tests using a 3 minute clip. The results are below. All figures are from the one file which began as a Digital 8 tape imported in to iMovie.

    For conversion the size on all was kept at 768 x 576 with the exception of the DIVX codec which sampled the image down to 720 x 576 pixels.

    Frame rate was kept at 25 FPS in keeping to the PAL standard. Audio was pretty much kept at 44.100 kHz - though audio is generally not a priority - except recently where I filmed an Australian with a Canon PowerShot 720 IS in the police lockup and he admitted he had killed an American tourist "because I didn't like him" and then went on to say he didn't regret shooting him.

    Encoding File size Mbytes Data rate
    DV format 640.9 57.59 mbits/sec
    DVPro 50 640.9 57.59 mbits/sec
    AVI 672.5 30.21 mbits/sec
    DivX (5.0) 25.3 1127.68 kbits/sec
    Quicktime H.264 405.0 18.19 mbits/sec
    MP4 (H.264) 25.9 1158.50 kbits/sec

    Looking at each of the files on-screen I could distinguish little quality difference between either except for the MP4 encoding which delivered absolute crap quality at 768 x 576 pixels.

    I burnt all the files to DVD and the MP4 file was still absolute crap.

    The logical choice appears to be either the H.264 codec to create a .MOV (Quicktime) file or the DivX codec to create a .divX file.

    Encoding to the .mov file took a significantly longer than encoding to any of the other standards except for the MP4 (H.264) which took almost two hours - which is clearly ridiculous.

    What I really need is for a station broadcast engineer or the like to stick his head in and say whether they can use .DivX files for broadcast or not.

    Someone who can explain what data rate means would also be helpful.

    My understanding is it only pertains to the network speed for smooth streaming. Is that right?

    Also the diifference bewteen DV, DVPro and DVPRo 50 would be helpful.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kelowna, BC - Canada
    Posts
    2

    Satellite

    If you have a laptop and a Platinum Visa card, then check out a PCMCIA Satellite uplink card and service provider. You'll get a faster connection at 128kbps to about 500kbps depending on what system you sign up for.

    Actually the rates are not so prohibitive anymore and highly mobile and small is size. I looked into this for GPS tracking in Northern Canada a few years ago and was surprised because the cost was much less than I thought it would have been.

    good luck

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chiang Mai, Thailand
    Posts
    8
    Quote
    Quote: Peter Kuhlmann
    View Post
    If you have a laptop and a Platinum Visa card, then check out a PCMCIA Satellite uplink card and service provider. You'll get a faster connection at 128kbps to about 500kbps depending on what system you sign up for.

    Actually the rates are not so prohibitive anymore and highly mobile and small is size. I looked into this for GPS tracking in Northern Canada a few years ago and was surprised because the cost was much less than I thought it would have been.

    good luck

    Thanks. I'll certainly look into that. Faster uploading would be brilliant.

    But there is still the looming question of format.

    DivX gives the smallest size and replays fin on my computer BUT can stations use it for broadcast?

  10. #10
    DivX gives the smallest size and replays fin on my computer BUT can stations use it for broadcast?
    I don't see local stations using it for broadcast so far, save for some testing of divX used on mobile, smart phones and webcast.

    To simplify, for one, DV (Digital Video), DVCpro and DVCpro50 (by Panasonic) are different in the quality they produce. The first is widely available and mainly used in the consumer/prosumer field. The next 2 are mainly used for broadcast or ENG (Electronic News Gathering), and they use different tape types.

    The higher the data rate (I remember it's the same as bitrate), the better the quality of your source. In streaming terms, the higher the rate, the higher the internet connection speed is required to have a smooth playback stream.
    There's no bad camera, just a bad user
    Loong . Singapore

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Subscribe to us on YouTube